Kate Henry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to Honing In, a podcast for creative thinkers where we’ll hone our skills, explore our passions, and nurture our dream projects into being. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Honing In. This is Kate Henry. And today I’m really excited to interview Camila Galaz. She is a multimedia artist, an editor, creative consultant based in New York. Her work looks at social histories of technology, memory, and identity through media archives, and reconsiderations of cultural touchstones and mythologies. She is the creator and co host of the Tech History podcast, Our Friend the Computer, which is a really fun lesson, a contributing editor of the Millennium Film Journal, and a member of New, Inc, the new museum’s art and technology incubator.

 

Kate Henry [00:01:01]:

Thanks for joining me, Camila. This has been a long time coming, and I’m so thrilled to talk to you about all kinds of things in your work. And maybe we’ll fit in some public scholarship there because you’re certainly someone who comes to my mind when I’m thinking about that. So welcome.

 

Camila Galaz [00:01:16]:

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

Kate Henry [00:01:19]:

Yeah. Of course. So I’ll dial this right in here on Honing In. I started this podcast because I’m really fascinated with how creative folks conceptualize projects just as a container or, like, you know, a framework for the work they do. And I’d love to hear from you because you’re doing lots of different creative work in different ways, which we’ll talk about more later. But could you tell us a little bit about whether that framework of, like, a project, quote, unquote, works for you? Or is there another way that you manage or think about your creative process or your creative output?

 

Camila Galaz [00:02:01]:

Yeah. It’s definitely the way I think about my work. I mean, I studied painting originally and I still paint a little bit, but my work has definitely diverted into all sorts of other mediums and also kind of sits often in a space that’s a little bit in between artistic practice and sort of research or public scholarship. And I think, like, having that sort of framework of a project helps me to, like, work out what I’m doing. Because sometimes, you know, if I’m thinking about, oh, I’m gonna, like, make a painting or I’m gonna work on this series of works, it doesn’t quite encompass all of the aspects of that because my work often I’ll have the output, but then it has all this research alongside, and I’m always trying to find a way to show that research as well as show the output. And so project really can help sort of, yeah. Encompass all of those aspects of topic that I’m like looking at researching both sort of perhaps more like academically, but also aesthetically.

 

Kate Henry [00:03:05]:

That feels so true to your work from, from how I’ve experienced it. I’d love for you to tell us a bit about the different type of work that you do. And in answering that, I wanna talk about what I see as like this delicious richness of all of the different type of creative work that you’re creating. And when I look at your work, whether it’s, you know, it’s writing or it’s film or it’s art or it’s, you know, research or it’s podcast, it really feels layered to me. So, like, in terms of multimedia or just interdisciplinarity or, like, obviously, your research is really clear there, interactivity of the folks who are engaging with it. And I’d love to hear you talk about your process for constructing these different pieces, which I think you just spoke to when you’re thinking about, you know, like how you format your projects. Is there a technical way that you sort of like layer your process for these projects?

 

Camila Galaz [00:03:59]:

Yeah. I used to have trouble, like I said, trying to work out how the research could reveal itself. Thinking about, like, my final year in art school, and I did this research project that ended up being abstract paintings, but I didn’t show any of that research. And I think that that is like a style of art, and that’s fine. But for me, I really wanted to share the research alongside, like, what I had sort of created from it. And I also often want to access the research of other artists when I see their work. I really went through this process of trying to work out how to do that. And I think I started by thinking about different entry points into work and also really thinking through my audience and considerations for my audience.

 

Camila Galaz [00:04:56]:

I think that I used to maybe not do that. And I’d be like, come and look at my work. It’s amazing, please. You know? You’re gonna love it. But instead, I sort of changed my mindset a little bit, and I started to think about, well, like, what do I want the audience to feel and how can I create that? But also, like, what do they need to be able to access these things? And some of that is, like, actual access considerations. So that might be something like seating or captions or visual descriptions, things like that. But it’s also for me about I want people to experience my work, and I want them to experience in the way that is easy for them. And so I think about these multiple entry points in terms of, like, well, maybe somebody just wants to view a work for, like, twenty seconds and experience it aesthetically, and then someone else may want to read an essay alongside it or, you know, look at the bibliography of the work and look at all my citations.

 

Camila Galaz [00:05:55]:

And so I started to make works that, like, incorporated all of these aspects into them, and that’s where I think this layered idea comes from. In the pandemic, I made a pandemic project with the curator, Sabrina Baker, in Australia, and we were looking at Camus the plague. And we made a website that I think really shows it’s not up anymore, but it showed this sort of layered sort of methodology in a really clear way in the sense that each page of the project on the website revealed something more. So there was a the the first page had a video that was like a twenty minute video that is still available. That’s kind of like the core of the piece. Then the next page had the script of the video, and then that had the citations and the links out to references. And then I did a sort of, like, kind of fake artist diary of the thing, but it was an artwork in itself. It also revealed information, and then there was a sort of FAQ at the end.

 

Camila Galaz [00:06:52]:

And there’s sort of layers where at each entry point of the work or each layer of the work, it’s a full piece. You don’t need to see everything, but if you want to, I like to provide it. So I think that when I’m creating a work, I’m always thinking about that. But when I create the work, I start at the densest part. You go up to the aesthetic object or video that you end up making. So, yeah, the artist is starting at the sort of more dense part. I was thinking of it like a forest, kinda creating something from it, but the audience is coming from, like, the paved pathway. And you wanna be like, well, if you wanna walk into the forest a little bit more, here’s a sort of like route that you could take.

 

Kate Henry [00:07:33]:

I love this concept of entry points. I really enjoyed in prepping for our conversation today, just like looking through your different projects and watching videos and listening to things and clicking through things. And you just talked a bit about, like, how you will, you know, set up your framework for your entry point as the creator, considering your audience for a project. How do you navigate working on multiple creative projects at a time? Or do you sort of, like, plan them out into your calendar to be like quarter three, I’m doing this.

 

Camila Galaz [00:08:06]:

I tend to have a lot of projects going on at the same time, but only some of them are super duper active. I keep them all in my brain and I’m sort of constantly adding to the files in my brain of, or on the computer, you know, of or or on the computer, you know, digital brain of these projects. But there’s usually only one or two that I’m actively working on each week. And I think that that’s sort of, yeah, it’s kind of part of the way that my brain works. And, you know, each of these projects are their own kind of little worlds. They’re at their own research topics, but they are connected, and they do kind of, like, spawn each other and things as well. So I like to kind of, like, be juggling them. And then also a lot of the projects are kind of alongside each other in terms of, like, say the podcast started as sort of the research output of a creative project, Code Writers, Bread and Justice Peaches and Bananas, which was an interactive documentary on a browser website.

 

Camila Galaz [00:09:08]:

But there was a sort of a historical research aspect to that. And then me and and Anna Meisel who coded that piece and she commissioned it as well, we just got really excited about it. And then that sort of created the podcast. So I think sometimes also there’s sort of relationships between things and work done on one project can kind of feed another project. But often, things get finished because of external deadlines, because of funding, residencies. Sometimes I tell myself, like, this week, I’m gonna finish this thing. And I’m sort of in that stage right now with a project where I’ve been researching it a lot, but it does get to a point where you really need to make yourself do the work of forming it into a whole. Following the sort of forest analogy, I often think of it like there’s two parts to a project.

 

Camila Galaz [00:10:00]:

There’s the research part. So that includes, like, the sort of spark of interest. You find something in a book or in a paper or in a documentary, and you’re like, I wanna do something about that. And then it sort of starts to build. You do kind of bits of research. You create a sort of library around the idea. But then you have to work out how you jump from that to like a sort of more concrete output from that. And that’s always the really hard part.

 

Camila Galaz [00:10:32]:

It’s also kind of the fun part. And it’s the part where like your own brain or your own kind of, like, creative impulse is most at play, which I think is sometimes hard to, like, let it do its thing because you don’t know what’s on the other side. You’re, like, in the forest. You’re surrounded by all your, like, JSTOR downloads, and then somehow you have to, like, make a pathway to something through this. And it’s like, how do you do that? And I do have kind of, like, methods of creating that. And often that is maybe perhaps what you would call, like, studio based research, sort of aesthetic based research, maybe. I you know, you go through originally, when you’re researching, you can go through all of the writing or, you know, everything that you’ve collated. And you’re trying to work out maybe what, like, the concept of the piece is gonna be.

 

Camila Galaz [00:11:24]:

Like, what is the kind of clever little thing that you’re doing with this work? But then I often will go back through all of that documentation and research, and I look for things that kind of spark something in me. So it could be, like, colors. Basically, the next step for me is always trying to work out what the visual language of this work is gonna be. And once you kind of work that out, you know, you’re like, okay. I think it’s gonna be maybe these sort of, like, line drawings that draw you know, like, pulling me in a little bit. This sort of color palette, I like this archival document is laid out. Maybe I could use that. And so pulling those things out, which aren’t necessarily about the thing that you’re researching, but it is about how it was documented, how it was seen, how it was understood, how people wanted other people to understand it.

 

Camila Galaz [00:12:13]:

And so I tend to, like, amass a lot of screenshots and Canva pages where I’m just, like, putting things, collaging stuff together. And then I think once you have that kind of, like, visual language mapped out a little bit, you start well, I tend to start to understand how the research or what I’m trying to say can be visually shown, whether that’s a film or even an essay, creative essay trying to work out, like, the types of sort of paragraphs you want it to look at the the feel that you want it to have. And so, yeah, it’s that switching from this sort of perhaps more, like, academic research to more, like, visual or intuitive research and then sort of bringing them together to create an artwork that I find really exciting. But it is like I get stuck in that middle section, and I have to tell myself, no. Like, you have a method for doing this, but it is a tricky spot to be in, but it’s such a joy when you like start to work it out. And you’re like, oh my God, it’s happening. It’s happening.

 

Kate Henry [00:13:15]:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. It’s so delightful to hear you talk us through this process. Like it just makes me think about as a consumer of art. I’m really interested in ceramics. I’m really interested in fiber arts. And, like, I appreciate those as, like, an audience or a collector, you know, and know what I appreciate. But then also there’s like the added layer of reading, like, an artist statement or reading about the research that went into something that I might not on the surface interpret if I’m just like, wow.

 

Kate Henry [00:13:46]:

This is aesthetically or creatively or structurally or look at the skill level that’s made this so beautiful. Right? I’m not sure the direct connection between that, but I really definitely wanna ask you about public scholarship because I know we’ve talked about this before, and I just I really appreciate your thoughts on this. And I know you’re a researcher, and I know that you work with material like that. So, I mean, when I’m thinking of public scholarship, which for me, like, my work is in writing and in archives, and I’m really fascinated with public scholarship as a way to make things accessible, to make ideas accessible to folks, either outside of a paywall or in, you know, like, without academic jargon. Like, I really see a difference between I know that academics do public scholarship, but it feels different to me, and I like that. Right? So do you conceptualize of things as public scholarship? Does that feel more for writing, or does it depend on the audience? Or, like, how does that interact with creative work or visual work? That’s a bit of a, like, open question, but I really just wanna hear what you think about public scholarship.

 

Camila Galaz [00:15:00]:

I think I got into it or into this sort of realm because the work I make, I talk to academics a lot, and I really value their work and their their practice. And, you know, I read a lot of academic articles when I’m researching and, you know, get starstruck when I can email someone that wrote, like, five articles on the niche topic that I’m looking at. I kept sort of having these conversations where people would email me after or or talk to me, and they’d be like, oh, it’s so great, like, what you’re doing with your project or whatever. You know? If you ever wanna do something with my research, wanna turn it into something, like, that would be great. And the thing is, it’s like my own practice doesn’t really have space for that. Like, artistic practice is very personal, and that’s a kind of different thing. But I could really feel that need or the joy from people when their research was activated and used and valued. Before that, I didn’t really think of my work as, like, public scholarship.

 

Camila Galaz [00:16:13]:

I was more just like, oh, I’m a research based artist. And then I think I started making projects that maybe weren’t for galleries at the start. There are projects that have later perhaps been shown in galleries or museums, but it was in the pandemic and I was trying to make more digital and accessible work. I was doing a lot of, like, free art, like, PDF downloads with my work and websites for projects and things like that. And, you know, that turned into, say, which is this interactive documentary I talked about before that’s looking at uses of computer networks before and after the Chilean dictatorship, specifically project CyberSim, which was a 1970s of socialist computer network that got destroyed by the coup that started the dictatorship. And then looking at during the pandemic of late October twenty nineteen through to 2020, a social uprising in Chile that was really kind of resisting the continuation of policies from the dictatorship era. And I worked with a sort of anonymous Instagram group that was documenting sort of human rights abuses and, and sort of doing community work during that time. And we made an oral history.

 

Camila Galaz [00:17:29]:

And and so it ended up being perhaps some more sort of abstracted, but like public scholarship work that has led to a lot of subsequent opportunities that are a little bit more like writing essays or talking about the process of making an oral history, which is not necessarily what I was talking about if I gave an artist talk prior to that. So like prior to 2020, I would talk more about like my practice and my, I don’t know, my painting or whatever I was doing. And this felt a little bit more based in kind of process and research and community, and I really enjoyed it. And then the podcast happened. And when we started the podcast, we really it’s it looks at the podcast looks at, like, alternative and global stories from the history of computing. And at the start, we’re like, oh, we’re not experts. We’re just really interested. And so we were trying to make a a podcast that was really kinda like funny and fun and a bit girly as well, I guess.

 

Camila Galaz [00:18:32]:

We were like, let’s just like pink and sort of, you know, two thousands nostalgia. And it was fun, but it’s ended now. But we did three years. And by the end, we were like, oh, no.

 

Kate Henry [00:18:44]:

We we

 

Camila Galaz [00:18:44]:

know what we’re talking about. Things kinda shifted. And it was an interesting process to go through that. And my public scholarship starts in just, like, deep interest and excitement for different topics and a joy of turning perhaps more dense histories of industry often into, like, informative, fun content, I guess, is the term. I often think of public scholarship more as somebody that perhaps has a PhD or that is a professor or, you know, is is working on research project within an academic institution that then is trying to sort of translate that into a more, like, publicly accessible format. And I’m not sure if what I’m doing is exactly that, but I really enjoy helping people do that because I think that the part that I see is often missing. The difficulty in getting from, like, the forest to the path. It’s perhaps a different way of looking at things, and it’s maybe that thing of, like, studio based research versus academic research and that, you know, I was trained in studio based research, and then I’ve spent twelve years basically learning how to be a researcher and incorporating that in.

 

Camila Galaz [00:19:59]:

And that’s been a really fulfilling, rewarding learning experience for me. But I think that often the sort of studio based research aspect of creating content or creative project from research is a thing that isn’t necessarily taught in academia because that’s traditionally not the goal. These things are now especially with, like, the Internet and social media, they’re, like, merging together, and we’re getting some, like, really fun, cool projects. And I’m, like, excited to be at a point where I’m, like, involved in that. It’s just I find that I’m often coming from the other side of things when a lot of people are coming from the researcher, like academic researcher institutional side. So, yeah, it’s an interesting space to be in, and it’s an interesting space to start considering my artistic practice to exist in.

 

Kate Henry [00:20:54]:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. It’s, again, delightful to hear you talk about this. It makes me think, like, when I first started thinking about public scholarship coming from academia to create it was, like, when I was studying, like, queer methods of doing, you know, rhetorical analysis and circulation and seeing folks who were, like, sharing things on YouTube. And I’m like, look at you. You’re like an academic. You probably want to be publishing peer reviewed journal articles to get tenure. And, like, folks were instead intentionally choosing to create websites or to create YouTube videos, which I just was so happy to find for so many reasons.

 

Kate Henry [00:21:32]:

Could you tell me a little bit more about what you mean when you’re talking about, like, the studio based research versus the academic research?

 

Camila Galaz [00:21:39]:

Studio based research was always something that, like, they talked about at art school, and I didn’t quite understand it. Like, it was what we were doing, but I didn’t quite get until I left art school, I think. But it’s basically just like time spent letting your brain just kinda, like, move around. And it’s you know, I guess, specifically, it’s sitting in the studio and being like, oh, what does this color look like next to this color? Oh, how does this look on the wall like this? Blah blah blah. You know, like, trying things out, seeing what feels good, and then ending with sort of a methodology, a visual a visual language, you know, a color palette. Like, that’s the output, but the way that you get there isn’t through, like well, it is sometimes, but, like, through, like, reading and and working that stuff out that way. And then I guess with academic research, I’m thinking a little bit more, like, perhaps more idea based and looking at sort of previous writing, coming up with things. But, of course, like, these things merge together when you get to, like, conceptual art, which is basically what I do.

 

Camila Galaz [00:22:45]:

And it’s each of the sort of aesthetic choices that you’re making, how do each of those mean something and relate back to the central idea of a project and making sure that everything kinda clicks into place in a nice way and everything is considered and everything is sort of feeding into this central idea or the sort of central conceit of the work. It’s sort of linking those two things together. But there I think there has been a move more recently to push that sort of more research side of it. And that’s where you get kind of more like research based art, but there’s obviously like a lot of different ways that research becomes art or research becomes content or, you know, public scholarship or, you know, any sort of creative output. And I think it’s a fun time to be playing in that space because there’s so many people also playing, and we’re all, like, kinda nerds and get excited about both, like, the topics and talking about talking about ideas. And I guess the central question is, like, how can we, like, do our best with ideas in terms of, like, aesthetics? What is the best sort of format or method or output for this idea and, and what, you know, what is that doing for the idea in terms of like how the audience receives it? Yeah.

 

Kate Henry [00:24:12]:

This is lovely hearing you talk about the studio based research. It to me, it just feels, like, very slow, which I love. I love slow processes and, like, sitting with it. You know? Like, I wonder I’m sure folks have been, like, slow living and doing go based research. It makes me think too about, like, my spouse went to art school for photography before digital photography. I’ve heard them tell me about, like, having to work in the dark rooms and, like, just like the literal, like, you do this by hand and you have to, like I don’t know. Like, there’s no light, and you have to just kinda figure it out, and you have to try it, and you have to do it 17 times to test it. You know? So it’s like that process.

 

Kate Henry [00:24:52]:

Yeah. This idea of sitting with art and thinking about it and seeing, you know, like how you feel and how it looks and just like the slowness that’s necessary for that sounds really satisfying.

 

Camila Galaz [00:25:04]:

Yeah. I think that that’s also why I’m often thinking about my role in projects, which I think maybe is something also that sometimes differentiates this sort of work from, like, academic scholarship and that, you know, this process is about, like, me as a researcher. And I don’t wanna take myself out of it because that is such a big part. And, you know, like I was saying before with like different projects making, spawning other projects or there’s connections between them, That’s important, but that is like my brain story. It’s the story of my practice and like artistic practice is a really personal one to the artist and, you know, in the same way that you might want, agree because there’s this really particular way of painting and you can see one and you know it, you can still do that with artistic based research projects where it’s like, this is the methods that this person’s using, or this is the type of question or query that this person often uses. And this is how it’s like revealed. You know, I’m very interested in hands or because I’m very gestural. You can’t see that right now, but I’m always poking around, pointing everywhere.

 

Camila Galaz [00:26:13]:

And, you know, I like handwriting and correspondence and marginalia and citations and the personal and all of those things. And, you know, there’s these things that, like, I’m just really interested in that comes across in all of my projects because of this sort of studio based research way of moving through, like, a library of research. That it’s like, what are the things that are really sparking sparking joy? What are the things that are really, like, pulling me in? Like, I’m working on this project at the moment about roses in computer advertising, and I’m, like, creating something from it. But I found this particular scan of a ad that had these different names of colors that are really it’s like for, I think, carpet in a office, gray and brown and black. But they’ve given them these, like, crazy names that I just love, like console beige, high-tech gray. And I’m like, great. That’s it. That’s the project.

 

Camila Galaz [00:27:14]:

I’m gonna use that. And it’s like you find something like that. You’re like, I wouldn’t know. I can’t search for that. You know? That’s the brain doing its thing as you’re going through and knowing the things that sort of you like and that have meaning. Yeah. That’s so important as well. It’s like the, for me, it’s the person and their sort of motivations and like the person behind the work.

 

Kate Henry [00:27:38]:

Yeah. I feel that as someone who does archival research, just like sitting with boxes of papers and materials and just, like, sitting within, like, spending the time to investigate it and, like, discover what the things are and, like, the connections. Like, it really is just, like, these wonderful rabbit holes to go down and, like, just, yeah. Could you tell me a little bit about, like, how you think about that? Like, particularly with archival research or thinking about things from history or, like, going down those paths?

 

Camila Galaz [00:28:09]:

Yeah. I mean, that’s like, I was just saying that I’m just like, yeah, because that’s so interest like, can I make a project about you making that project? Like, that’s the stuff that I love. I’m like, I wanna know about the archivist that did this. Like, why did someone choose to do this, and what else are they doing in their lives? And, like, that is an interesting story for me. But I think it’s also because I’m interested in that kind of the sort of conduit of knowledge of that thing of like, well, I know this information about history, but like, how do I know it and why? And, like, who made the choice that I should know this? And, you know, I had this project about where in the world is Carmen San Diego, the video game, because it was one of the first, like, edutainment video games. And so it’s, like, it’s to learn geography. And I’m half Chilean, and I played a lot as a kid. And then I was thinking about it and I was like, what was I learning about Chile during, like, the time that I was playing this game? Because you learn about different countries.

 

Camila Galaz [00:29:11]:

It’s like, oh, I’m playing like a quasi CIA agent hunting down a Hispanic coded woman. And it’s like intended for American audiences, like USA audiences. And I’m like the daughter of a political refugee from Chile living in Australia. What was I learning and what was the point of this and what, you know, so I made a project about the geopolitics of where in the world has come in San Diego. And so it’s like, why do we know the things we know and what else was there? Like, what are the stories behind the stories that we know? And often it’s people, it’s organizations, it’s things going on politically or socially, and that really excites me. So it’s often for me, it’s like, who is the archivist? Like, the sort of marks on the side of the scans of books. Because it shows this sort of, like, physicality, this kind of, like, personal intimate connection to archives that I really enjoy. And so it’s like an archive is as much about its archivist as it is about the thing it’s preserving.

 

Kate Henry [00:30:16]:

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that example. I find that as someone who’s been studying the same person for, like, a decade or over now, that I felt like especially when I was in graduate school that I was like, I’m never gonna know enough about the nineteen forties through the nineteen sixties in Los Angeles. Like, I’m never gonna know enough about, like, what was happening politically, medically, historically, like, in order to do stuff. But I do. Like, I do know enough that, like, when I see I I don’t remember if I told you this before, but, like like, there was this commercial from a bank in, like, the, like, February about Lisa Ben, who I research. And they were honoring her, and they quoted the, like, most popularly quoted thing from her magazine vice versa. And they were like, she proved that the third sex is here to stay.

 

Kate Henry [00:31:03]:

And I was like, oh my gosh. That was like a sexological term from, like, the early twentieth century. Like, it is so incredibly weird and significant that you’re saying that in, like, I don’t know, ’20 whatever that the commercial came out for a bank. Like, there’s so many layers there, but, like, as the researcher who knows the, like, context in the history, I was able to, like, talk to folks about it in a group and be like, oh my god. This is weird for these reasons. And people were like, oh, wow. Cool. Like, I like, people were like, wow.

 

Kate Henry [00:31:36]:

I know that thing now. Like, I can see this because this researcher who knows so well just, like, showed me the connection. So, like, you talking about the Carmen San Diego connection right there did that for me. Do you ever feel that way as well where you’re like, do I know enough about this thing to, like, write a piece about, like, it historically? Right? Like I know like the piece that you did with other folks around like

 

Camila Galaz [00:31:58]:

switchboard operators. Yeah. Like what I said before with the podcast where at the start, we were like, we’re not experts. We’re just doing this thing. I mean, it was true, and it gave us a little bit of freedom to sort of do what we wanted, I guess. But it’s also a bit of, like, imposter syndrome. And I struggle with that so much. And I think that that is also, like I feel like I need to know absolutely everything in order to talk about something, but I’ve gotten better at just kind of acknowledging where I’m at and what I’m doing, what I’m interested in.

 

Camila Galaz [00:32:34]:

And and also it’s like, I’m not trying to sort of feel like I’m an expert in this. I mean, maybe I should, but but at the same time, it’s like, it comes from a real excitement and joy of, like, knowledge and piecing things together and talking to other people. And I think we can all understand that, like, we’re not gonna know absolutely everything. And I think that, like, if there’s some peace in that, I often feel a little bit more. There’s, like, flexibility to say when you don’t know something or get excited when someone’s like, oh, but I thought, like, actually, it’s this. And he’d be like, oh my god. What? Like, I thought it was this. This changes everything.

 

Camila Galaz [00:33:13]:

And just sort of meeting the information where it’s at. Yeah. I know. It’s not a way for me to kind of boost myself in some way. It’s like we’re all just legitimately interested in these, like, really niche topics that need people to be interested in them. And it’s also just like, as I heard as you were talking, I was just like, how amazing. Like, we should all be so lucky that someone is so obsessed with us that they’ll research us and know everything. And, like, if after I’m dead, if I’m quoted in a bank ad completely wrong, like how amazing that someone might be there to say it’s not right.

 

Kate Henry [00:33:57]:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. I hear you. I think about this a lot with queer archiving practices and, like, and feminist archiving practices and how, like, everything could be an archive. Right? Like, we can collect things. Like, all of the I’ve, like, saved every card Chris has gotten for me since we started dating, like, I don’t know, eight years ago. And, like, that’s our queer archive of these sweet little cards that I got for the last eight years. Right?

 

Camila Galaz [00:34:22]:

But that’s about legacy as well. It’s about legacy and, like, the people that get remembered are often the ones that have, like, money or power or, you know, status within their community that perhaps came from, like, their privileged points within their identity. And perhaps the Internet is a way to kind of approach this, but, like, we do have a little bit more autonomy now in our abilities to create our own legacies. And also it’s like we can provide that for each other and make sure that we’re remembered and make sure that, you know and that starts now. That’s that’s that starts with this podcast and making sure that you’re, like, archiving this podcast and getting it in, like, some important places. And it’s like the work we do for ourselves and, you know, perhaps pushing against our imposter syndrome. Being like, no. This stuff that I’m doing is like an oral history of whatever whatever.

 

Camila Galaz [00:35:25]:

You know? It’s like it’s Honoring those things, I think, then means that, yeah, we can start to, like, create our own archives that are so important for our community. And then, like, you see someone doing it and you’re like, oh, I could do that too. Like, I could make a little zine about my projects and get it in, like, a library. Yeah. And then maybe in thirty years, someone finds it and they’re like, woah, I’m gonna make an artwork from the colors that this person used.

 

Kate Henry [00:35:55]:

Yes. Oh, I love that. Our library right down the street has a huge zine collection. Okay. I have been taking us on all these wonderful, fun rabbit holes. One thing I wanna come back to, we’re talking about my project a little bit. And, like, I was so fortunate to work with you for project advising. So I’m working on this Lisa Ben project, and I really feel like I’m like, holy cow.

 

Kate Henry [00:36:19]:

I could do 70 different things with it. And it was so helpful to talk to you and to, like, really come away with, like, tangible specific next steps, and I really benefited from that. So I’m curious if you could tell us a bit about the work that you’re doing with others, with clients, and, like, what you’re doing now or what you’re hoping to do down the line, whether it’s 2025 or in the future.

 

Camila Galaz [00:36:42]:

Yeah. Yeah. It was so fun to dive into your project and hear what you’re thinking and, like, where you’ve come and all your plans and goals for it. That was so fun and exciting. And I love doing that kind of stuff. And it’s you know, I do it with my own work, but it’s so nice to talk to others who are working on projects that they’re, like, very knowledgeable about and excited about. And, yeah, so I I started, I was doing this kind of on the side of my practice, you know, helping others sort of doing have, like, art crits, but also project advising. And I kind of brought all of that work together into a new, I guess, business called structured knowledge.

 

Camila Galaz [00:37:28]:

And it’s really around this sort of, like, nonfiction narrative design for creative projects. So, like, how do we structure project space in research that are gonna have a more creative public outcome? And yeah. So it’s it’s like the one on one work where we meet up over Zoom and dive into a project and talk through it. But then there’s also some aspects of this work that’s like detailed feedback. So developmental editing for manuscripts. So like going through someone’s book manuscript and really working out, like, how is it flowing? What’s the tone? Like, is it consistent? Like, chapter titles, how is it all how is the information flowing through the book? And then sort of similar detailed written feedback on other kinds of, like, multimedia projects as well. So, like, podcasts, documentaries, you know, any sort of, like, treatment scripts, artistic projects as well. And, yeah, kind of, like, giving some talks and, like, workshops a little bit more about, like, the methodology.

 

Camila Galaz [00:38:32]:

It’s really a way for me to look at there’s, like, my practice and there’s the artworks that I make that are really connected very deeply to specific niches that I’m really interested in. But then I wanted a way to keep exploring this sort of beyond just my projects. And so this is really a place that I can use my experience and my sort of methodology of my practice to help others and help, yeah, more like ideas and research become accessible and be like engaging and fun. And there’s so much amazing research and knowledge that isn’t sort of known by the general public. And people do love this sort of stuff, but it does involve a little bit of translation from the sort of academic, traditional academic kind of world, you know, or artistic research kind of world into these more like public scholarship, public facing creative projects. And it’s been a blast. Actually, I’m really enjoying I’m really enjoying it.

 

Kate Henry [00:39:35]:

Oh, well, I certainly recommend for folks who are working on, you know, projects that they are feeling stuck or stumped on, like, I to work with you and hire you. I know for me, like, it really has been a bit of a challenge to go from doing in academia, being like a quote, unquote expert on Lisa Ben, and, like, writing things that had to be through this, like, rhetorical education, writing studies, circulation studies lens, which is really satisfying in what I’m trained in. But wanting to make a website that’s, like, publicly accessible, free of jargon, and, like, it’s sort of like, okay. I’m, like, completely approaching this in a new way that I haven’t. And, like, with some technical skills I don’t have yet. You know? So it was really nice to meet with you, and I felt really, like, encouraged to play and to, like like, there are certain things I’m like, oh, yes. I do need to make sure that I have, you know, like, make sure I have, like, these websites I’m linking to say it. Like, there are certain certain technical things, but also I felt really encouraged to, like, just be playful and and approach it in a way that’s, like, I guess, enjoyable for the audience as well.

 

Kate Henry [00:40:47]:

So, like, that was that was helpful because I don’t feel like coming from academia, I necessarily have those sort of, like, creative, playful, like public ways of doing things. Because we just weren’t trained for that. Have you found that with other clients or other folks that you like?

 

Camila Galaz [00:41:05]:

Yeah. I think it’s that’s I mean, firstly, that’s just really great to hear. Because I I do love that, you know, there are the sort of actual sort of tangible things that need to happen in order to have something be useful to people and, you know, have that kind of, like, narrative flow. I think that’s, like I called it structured knowledge because it is a structure. Like, you need structure. I think sometimes people kind of pull away from that. But I think once you have that in place, then there’s space for that play and and the creative part to come through. But, yeah, I mean, I think that it’s a fun place to be because you don’t have these strict rules necessarily that you do with, yeah, like writing a peer review journal article.

 

Camila Galaz [00:41:48]:

And, you know, I love citations, but I’m creative with them because I don’t have to have them be in a specific format. I made a print once that was using the citations that I purposely made it kind of, like, difficult. I don’t know. You know, these things, it’s like you there is a joy in that, and I think that, like, I’ve definitely seen that shift is really freeing because you realize that, like, oh, you can’t you don’t have to stick with it. Like, you obviously want the research to still be really strong, and you’re not necessarily, unless you’re working with kind of like a speculative space, even then, like, you’re not like making stuff up. Like it’s all based on research and and truth, nonfiction. But, yeah, you can like play around with it, and it gives you that freedom to kind of, like, explore other things as well because it’s like you do get a little bit, I guess, yeah, a little bit more into maybe that speculative space or you can kind of pull out things. I often tell people about kind of the sort of idea of funny stories, interesting stories.

 

Camila Galaz [00:42:56]:

Like like, that is the like, perhaps for article that might be not the main part of an article. Like, that’s, you know, maybe that’s a a a notes. You know? But, like, that is the thing that audiences probably will be, like, really engaged with, and that is the thing that draws people in. And then that is the kind of conduit to get to sort of deeper research. And that thing of sort of, like, providing all your research in an accessible way and, you know, perhaps, like, all your links and, you know, collating all the information that you find online about somebody. And then there’s the, like, translation part. And and that’s a part where, like, you can, you know, go through and be like, I’m gonna, like, do a whole page about this story because it’s, like, so interesting. It says so much about the person or the topic that I’m researching, and it’s engaging.

 

Camila Galaz [00:43:46]:

And and that’s really fun as well. So I think, yeah, it is it is finding that balance, but it’s also, yeah, about finding the kind of freedom within the sort of, like, structures of your project.

 

Kate Henry [00:43:58]:

Yeah. Yeah. I feel that freedom much more now that I’m done with graduate school. I mean, I remember, like, when I was doing my dissertation, like, talking to my adviser who was super awesome and so supportive of being like, could I just do, like, a podcast about this? And she was like, no. You can’t just do a podcast about vice versa for your, you know, dissertation. You have to write an academic dissertation, you know, like but I feel like now I get to do those, like, fun things that I, like, was inspired to do in grad school, but, like, they just weren’t the, I don’t know. They didn’t hold the same exchange value to get my degree.

 

Camila Galaz [00:44:35]:

We do these things because we’re, like, super excited about a topic. And, yes, sometimes, in order to be able to, like, spend a lot of time on something, sometimes we place ourselves within academia, which is like, I love academia. Very, very valid, like, really important. But, like, doesn’t stop our human brain from being like, I wanna do a podcast. Like, I’m gonna do paintings about this. You know? And so it’s

 

Kate Henry [00:44:58]:

like it’s it is really freeing because it’s like

 

Camila Galaz [00:45:00]:

and I guess this is a little bit like what my artistic projects are like where it’s like, oh, I’m gonna, like, write peer review article about this topic, but then I’m also gonna go off and, like, do these crazy paintings. And they’re and they’re, like, just in my mind, they’re just as legitimate as each other, and they, like, work with each other. And it’s all this sort of, like, ecosystem of an idea and a project. And yeah, and I think that, like, the structure of academia is so important in sort of, like, knowledge production. We wouldn’t have, like, so much without that. With my own projects, like, I do a little bit

 

Kate Henry [00:45:36]:

of primary research, but a lot

 

Camila Galaz [00:45:38]:

of it is using research from from researchers, and I always credit them. I often talk to them. Like, I I it’s amazing. And, you know, a lot of that is also through, like, the funding of the institution. You know, it’s, like, so important. But then, like, yeah, the the way that that then gets translated to sort of, like, the public, it’s just like a slightly different way of doing things, and you don’t necessarily need the constrictions of that. And you get to kind of, yeah, you get to play and you get to kind of explore the research topic in really different ways that has a lot of value when you put it. Yeah.

 

Camila Galaz [00:46:18]:

Like alongside some deep research and it’s, it’s, there’s so many ways that research can be translated into creative projects.

 

Kate Henry [00:46:27]:

Yeah. Oh, I feel like I’m feeling really inspired now to go and work on my research. Yeah. My spouse is going to see a movie later today alone. So maybe I’ll stay back and do some of my Lisa Ben research on my own, you know? Well, I really could talk to you about this forever, but I’ll start closing us up for the day. Thanks for telling us a bit about the work that you do for folks. I’m curious, you know, I ask everybody this, but I’d love to hear about something that you’re honing in on right now in your life.

 

Camila Galaz [00:46:55]:

Yeah. I mean, I it’s, it’s probably what we’ve been talking about really. That’s like, I, I do love helping research become more accessible and helping researchers, like of all of all kinds get their work out into the world. And like, that’s why I make the artwork that I make and have been making for a very long time. And that’s why I enjoy collaborating with others. And I’m just, I’m really excited about now kind of formalizing my most of, like, consulting, advising, editorial services with structured knowledge because it means that I can help a lot more people and help a lot more projects reach their audiences, and I find it really rewarding. And also it’s like, this is the sort of stuff I like to listen to and see and read. And so it makes me very happy to be helping that be created, and then I get to listen and read and experience them as well.

 

Kate Henry [00:47:47]:

Yes. No, I, I feel that very much. This is lovely. Well, thank you so much for, for taking time to chat with me today. I’ve really been looking forward to this episode. So how can folks find you? Where would folks start if they wanted to check out your work or get in contact?

 

Camila Galaz [00:48:03]:

Well, my artistic website is camilagalaz.com, c a m I l a g a l a z for zebra Com. And then my consulting is structuredknowledge.net. And then I’m on Instagram, underscore Camila Gales. But, yes, I can be found in all of these places and feel free to send me a DM or an email through either of the websites. And, yeah, I’m always happy to chat about people’s projects and my own projects. And, yeah, thank you so much for having me. And I always enjoy hanging out and chatting with people that are like me and have deep interests in in sort of topics, and we enjoy creating. And it’s always very fulfilling to be in community with others that do this sort of work.

 

Kate Henry [00:48:55]:

Yeah. I agree. It feels like simultaneously, like, nourishing and inspiring and energizing, like, all of those things at once.

 

Camila Galaz [00:49:02]:

I know now I’m like, I wanna go work on a project.

 

Kate Henry [00:49:04]:

Yeah. Well, folks who are listening, you can go work on a project too. We’ll all do it together. Excellent. Well, thanks so much. Kavila will be in touch.

 

Camila Galaz [00:49:12]:

Thank you. Bye, everyone.

 

Kate Henry [00:49:15]:

Thanks so so much for joining me. You can learn more about honing in and my work as a productivity coach on my website, katehenry.com. Take good care.